Science long ago stopped questioning the existence of God. It's elementary really, if you know anything about deductive reasoning (which you probably don't). Think for a second, if you can manage it: If you went down the street and saw a quarter on the sidewalk, you would think naturally, "someone dropped a quarter." If you went down the street and saw a handful of quarters on the sidewalk, you would think, "Someone had a big hole in their pockets, or dropped a roll of quarters." But if you went down the street and saw one hundred quarters on the sidewalk and they were all carefully balanced precariously on their edges, you would have to think somebody did this deliberately. Right, stupid?
The Universe as we know it, is that carefully balanced. This theory is known as the Strong Anthropic Principle. The only possibility other than this Universe was created, is there are so many universes that the equivalent of one hundred quarters falling out of someone's pocket and ALL of them ending up balanced on their edges occurred, completely by random chance. This theory is known as the, "Weak Anthropic Principle." So if you are a rational thinker here are your only two choices. Either this Universe was created , or that there are multitudes of Universes. If you are an imbecile you can believe in evolution. If you choose to be an intelligent creature (like me), you'll keep an open mind and realize that evolution is impossible.
To name just a few of the finely tuned variables that are mentioned in the books, "God the Evidence," by Patrick Glynn, John Leslie, in Universes" and from George Greenstein's "The Symbiotic Universe."
Gravity is roughly 1039 times weaker than electromagnetism. If gravity had been merely 1033 times weaker than electromagnetism, stars would be a billion times less massive and would burn a million times faster. Leslie, page 5.
The nuclear weak force is 1028 times the strength of gravity. Had the weak force been slightly weaker, all the hydrogen in the universe would have been turned to helium (making water impossible, for example). Leslie, page 24. Leslie got this information from P.C. W. Davies, 1980 (Other Worlds), pp. 176-177.
"A stronger nuclear strong force (by as little as 2 percent) would have prevented the formation of protons, --yielding a universe without atoms. Decreasing it by 5 percent would have given us a universe without stars." Leslie, page 4, quoting Hawking, Physics Bulleting: Cambridge, vol. 32, 1980, pp 9-10.
The charges of the electron and proton have been measured in the laboratory and have been found to be precisely equal and opposite. Were it not for this fact the resulting imbalance would force every object in the universe--our bodies, trees, planets, rocks, stars, to explode violently. The Universe would consist solely of a uniform and tenuous mixture not so very different from air. There would be nothing else. Greenstein's "The Symbiotic Universe."
The very nature of water--so vital to life--is something of a mystery. Unique among the molecules water is lighter in its solid form than its liquid form: Ice floats. If it did not, the oceans would freeze from the bottom up and Earth would be covered with solid ice. This property is traceable to unique properties of the hydrogen atom. Leslie, p 30, quoting Barrow and Tipler pp 143-144. CF Debtys Wilkinson, Our Universes (New York: Columbia University Press, 1991), pp 171-172.
The synthesis of carbon--the vital core of all organic molecules--on a significant scale involves what scientists view as an astonishing coincidence in the ratio of the strong force to electromagnetism. This ratio makes it possible for carbon-12 to reach an excited state of exactly 7.65 MeV at the temperature typical of the center of stars, which creates a resonance involving helium-4. beryllium-8 and carbon-12--allowing the necessary binding to take place during a tiny window of opportunity 10-17 seconds long." Wilkinson, pp 181-183. See also John Gribbon and Martin Rees, Cosmic Coincidences (New York: Bantam, 1989 pp. 243-247.
A remarkable feature of the Universe is its emptiness. Stars are extraordinarily distant from one another. However, were it not for these vast reaches of empty space, violent collisions between stars would be so frequent as to render the Universe uninhabitable. The yet more frequent near misses would detach planets from their orbits around their suns, flinging them off into interstellar space where they would quickly cool to hundreds of degrees below zero. Greenstein's, "The Symbiotic Universe."
There. I've proved it to you. Everything. Now stop being so stupid.
paloooka
41 Comments
I do also believe that we have the ability to enhance ourselves (which might also be called evolve) due to our gifts and talents and scientific properties we've been given - either as flora or fauna.. to continue to adapt to changing environments
:)
http://www.proofgodexists.org/
utter rubbish
Because the existence of God is not testable. Now Theologians and Philosophers question the existence of God. Science concentrates on things that ARE testable.
With "Gravity is roughly 1039 times weaker than electromagnetism", "The nuclear weak force is 1028 times the strength of gravity" and "A stronger nuclear strong force (by as little as 2 percent) would have prevented the formation of protons..." you attempt to prove that God exists through the 'This is too good to be true' argument. It's almost the same argument as 'Eyes are too complicated to have evolved'.
Before that, you suggest that the only way God could NOT have created the universe is if there are many. Perhaps there are - and in some, protons ARE heavier, or Gravity IS stronger than electromagnatism. Perhaps in these hypothetical universes there is no life to question. Perhaps, out of all the universes, there is just one in which everything works out. Maybe more - we'll never know. The point here is, if there is another universe capable of carrying life, perhaps with a slower speed of light or heavier dark matter - whatever, then it's perfectly feasible to assume that on a web site in a universe far, far away, a similar conversation is taking place, with your counterpart suggesting God must exist because of the incredible coincidences that brought together THEIR universe.
Ice does float - you're right. But then so does water. If it didn't there'd be a very thin layer of water over everything.
The Science you present proves how complicated the universe is, and how lucky we are that it is as it is. We can accept that - yes we have been lucky. But all of science is governed by laws. And its laws of the nature of things that make it like it is. If it wasn't, we wouldn't be here to question.
Powerful argument Palooka, but not proof.
on a side note, to put forward a good argument for evolution..taken from Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion...
"What are the odds of earth having the perfect conditions for creating life and having it evolve here? Say a billion to 1 just for arguments sake. Scientists reckon there are between 1 and 30 billion planets in our galaxy alone. They reckon there are about 100billion galaxies. So say there are roughly a billion billion planets available in the universe. Now suppose the origin of life, the spontaneous arising of something equivalent to DNA really was a quite staggeringly improbable event. Suppose it was so improbable only to occur on 1 in a billion planets, a grant giving body would laugh at any chemist who admitted the chance of his proposed research only had a 1 in 100 chance of succeeded, but here we are talking about odds of 1 in a billion. And yet, Even with such absurdly long odds, life will still have arisen on a billion planets - of which Earth, of course, is one."
why hasnt God visited us? lol
- I'm wrong, and they just aren't there.
- The vast distances of space and the speed of light can not be overcome.
- They have come to observe, but we just don't know it:
- They don't want us to see them
- They are not in a form recognizable to us
If Kurzweil is right (sorry I keep referring back to the same person. He's my futurist de jour at the moment), we won't even recognize ourselves by the end of the century, let alone a civilization far more advanced. More than one science fiction writer has talked about evolution to the point of thought energy imprinted on the very fabric of the universe. Certainly something we wouldn't pick up on yet.
I discount civilisations in other galaxies. I do this because, apart from Alpha Centauri, none are close enough to ever warrent any communication - remember the universe is still expanding - they aint never gonna get any closer. Alpha Centauri of course, will collide with our galaxy at some point in the future. Then you'll see some fireworks :o)
On the other hand, since evolution is exponential, there is probably only a very narrow window between the time civilizations are advanced enough to be asking these questions, to the time when they have reached a highly evolved state like the other 96%. So, the odds of making contact during that window are probably pretty small.
You can discount other galaxies if you assume that there is no way to navigate space other than the conventional way that is limited by light speed. I think it would be arrogant to assume we know the answer to that question at this point in time.
It does, assuming wormholes and hyperspace are actually impossible. It could well be that we're on our own for the duration. Depressing thought, isn't it?
It's an excellent philosophical question - can 'intelligence' per se, evolve ad infinitum, or must it get to a 'peak'?
In any case, the next question is "can 'intelligence' per se, evolve ad infinitum, or must it get to a 'peak'?"
That's a darn good question. I think if that intelligence is confined solely to the known universe, then it must necessarily be finite. If it can transcend this universe, then it is probably infinite. Since there is absolutely nothing in my experience or knowledge on which case it may be, I can't formulate a logical answer.
My own personal belief would have to be that intelligence has an inifinite capacity to evolve. If that is true, then we might truly be alone for the long haul. That's going waaaay out on a speculative limb, though. :-)
The telescopic nature of evolution requires that the further along we are, the more quickly consciousness is manifested. It took 2 billion years for single celled organisms to realize they could work together to create a new level of evolution - compare that to the scientific revolution of the past 400 years. If we realize that manifestation is happening quicker than ever before we have to accept that we have to get a hold on our fears, doubts and insecurities which are the roots of our strife (and this becomes increasingly relevant today) Imagine the next 100 years under fear control and security rather than peace creativity and universal acceptance. It is a sad state of affairs when humanity is letting the powers that be force them to take an evolutionary step backwards.
At the end of Waking Life, the director talks with the main character about the nature of time, I thought it would be pretty interesting,
"Anyway, I read this essay by Philip K. Dick.
What, you read it in your dream?
No, no. I read it before the dream. It was the preamble to the dream. It was about that book, um Flow My Tears the Policeman Said. You know that one?
Uh, yeah yeah, he won an award for that one.
Right, right. That’s the one he wrote really fast. It just like flowed right out of him. He felt he was sort of channeling it, or something. But anyway, about four years after it was published, he was at this party, and he met this woman who had the same name as the woman character in the book. And she had a boyfriend with the same name as the boyfriend character in the book, and she was having an affair with this guy, the chief of police, and he had the same name as the chief of police in his book. So she’s telling him all of this stuff from her life, and everything she’s saying is right out of his book. So that’s totally freaking him out, but, what can he do?
And then shortly after that, he was going to mail a letter, and he saw this kind of, um, you know, dangerous, shady looking guy standing by his car, but instead of avoiding him, which he says he would have usually done, he just walked right up to him and said, "Can I help you?" And the guy said, "Yeah. I, I ran out of gas." So he pulls out his wallet, and he hands him some money, which he says he never would have done, and then he gets home and thinks, wait a second, this guy, you know, he can’t get to a gas station, he’s out of gas. So he gets back in his car, he goes and finds the guy, takes him to the gas station, and as he’s pulling up at the gas station, he realizes, "Hey, this is in my book too. This exact station, this exact guy. Everything."
So this whole episode is kind of creepy, right? And he’s telling his priest about it, you know, describing how he wrote this book, and then four years later all these things happened to him. And as he’s telling it to him, the priest says, "That’s the Book of Acts. You’re describing the Book of Acts." And he’s like, "I’ve never read the Book of Acts." So he, you know, goes home and reads the Book of Acts, and it’s like uncanny. Even the characters’ names are the same as in the Bible. And the Book of Acts takes place in 50 A.D., when it was written, supposedly. So Philip K. Dick had this theory that time was an illusion and that we were all actually in 50 A.D., and the reason he had written this book was that he had somehow momentarily punctured through this illusion, this veil of time, and what he had seen there was what was going on in the Book of Acts.
And he was really into Gnosticism, and this idea that this demiurge, or demon, had created this illusion of time to make us forget that Christ was about to return, and the kingdom of God was about to arrive. And that we’re all in 50 A.D., and there’s someone trying to make us forget that God is imminent. And that’s what time is. That’s what all of history is. It’s just this kind of continuous, you know, daydream, or distraction.
And so I read that, and I was like, well that’s weird. And than that night I had a dream and there was this guy in the dream who was supposed to be a psychic. But I was skeptical. I was like, you know, he’s not really a psychic, you know I’m thinking to myself. And then suddenly I start floating, like levitating, up to the ceiling. And as I almost go through the roof, I’m like, "Okay, Mr. Psychic. I believe you. You’re a psychic. Put me down please." And I float down, and as my feet touch the ground, the psychic turns into this woman in a green dress. And this woman is Lady Gregory.
Now Lady Gregory was Yeats’ patron, this, you know, Irish person. And though I’d never seen her image, I was just sure that this was the face of Lady Gregory. So we’re walking along, and Lady Gregory turns to me and says, "Let me explain to you the nature of the universe. Now Philip K. Dick is right about time, but he’s wrong that it’s 50 A.D. Actually, there’s only one instant, and it’s right now, and it’s eternity. And it’s an instant in which God is posing a question, and that question is basically, ‘Do you want to, you know, be one with eternity? Do you want to be in heaven?’ And we’re all saying, ‘No thank you. Not just yet.’ And so time is actually just this constant saying ‘No’ to God’s invitation. I mean that’s what time is. I mean, and it’s no more 50 A.D. than it’s two thousand and one. And there’s just this one instant, and that’s what we’re always in."
And then she tells me that actually this is the narrative of everyone’s life. That, you know, behind the phenomenal difference, there is but one story, and that’s the story of moving from the "no" to the "yes." All of life is like, "No thank you. No thank you. No thank you." then ultimately it’s, "Yes, I give in. Yes, I accept. Yes, I embrace." I mean, that’s the journey. I mean, everyone gets to the "yes" in the end, right?"
Seventh. You said "Obviously the universe, and in turn humankind was intelligently designed...". Is it so hard for your ego to accept we could be here by accident? I believe we can only reach true 'enlightenment' when we finally accept that we are ............. not important. This affront to the ego is what makes that hard to accept. I understand that.
If/when we destroy ourselves, the universe will still be there. If ID is behind it all, and the point IS us, then your 'designer' is flawed.
'God' could not have created us - because we are not perfect. We all create things - and we all do so to the best of our ability. If 'God' created us to the best of His ability, the He must be flawed - which means He is not the 'God' as advertised. If He created us with in-built imperfections, then He is a cruel 'God' indeed and I want no part of Him. To intentionally create the pain and suffering in this world is an act of unspeakable evil.
At several times in my life I have been in the most excruciating pain - both physical and mental - enough to warrant ending it. Please don't try to tell me (as some have) that this is because I do not 'trust in God', because I have met too many individuals in constant agony who are too young to have 'sinned', too young to have been given the choice.
We are told that the sins of the fathers will be visited on the sons - where is the justice in that? God's Justice? Keep it. We are also told that we will be 'judged' at the very end of things. If that is so, then the pain and suffering in this world cannot be God's will - as this is like being judged twice. If you accept God, then you must accept that he is a Just God don't you? If you suggest that it's Satan who delivers the pain and suffering, then why does this God allow that? If you believe God created everything - including Satan - then, once again, God must be flawed. If God is flawed, then He cannot exist as advertised.
"To intentionally create the pain and suffering in this world is an act of unspeakable evil."
Yet, every day that is what we our doing by letting consensus reality stay the same way it has been for so long. people are afraid of change and afraid of the very power they hold in their hands. I don't say it is because of a distrust in God, but a distrust in yourself. surely you can face whatever has been put on your plate for otherwise you would not have meant to face it. one who sees reality in this light is always taking steps up the staircase of life. even when they fall, they always begin to climb again as soon as they are done. is humanity willing to climb the steps together, catching us as we fall?
my ego is not scared by the fact that the universe is an accident, it is scared by the fact that it seems to be following some sort of plan. the 2nd law of thermodynamics states that the universe is heading towards disorder (because as time increases, more and more possibilities exist, and less and less of them are ordered), yet how can LIFE EXIST AS WE KNOW IT - if there was not some underlying order that was there all along? i thought we were heading to disorder? have you seen the planet earth? it's fucking amazing. it boggles my mind for someone to not see the implicate order in the fact that we are even having a conversation about its very existence.
sure, we're all unimportant. there's almost 7 billion of us now (and the real people who make the change are a bunch of assholes with a ton of money and an atrocious agenda). but the importance you make out of your unimportance makes all the difference.
One of the cofounder of the String Field Theory and scientific adviser of the movie Star Trek with the other leading scientific mind believe that there are really life on the other planet with a civilization far more advance than us. He classified it into two level.
Level One... Are civilization with more advance technology than us and have enable their race to feed, clothe, and etc. while nurturing their environment.
Level Two... The highest that have an advance mind consciousness ( I think this civilization can control their subconscious mind) with all the ecipes for survival...
Our civilization you might be thinking????
"""" It doesn't even merit a number!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why? Because we are already destroying our environment and accdg. to him we, earhtlings, have aproximately 100 years before going to oblivion and perish!!!
hope I have been a help.
Hey you know AdGuy always gets the last word! ;)