I think we need to slow down and take a look at what Woyano is, what it promotes as much as what WE make of it. Everyone has their own opinion and everyone has their own beliefs regardless if the topic of discussion is politics or beer, religion or pets! I read all the comments on topics such as this, and seriously people I have to say, it is mind boggling! During the span of a couple of days, and a few "controversial" posts, the entire "mood" of Woyano changed. The overall accepting, welcoming and positive feel of the site turned SOUR overnight. Almost every comment on this thread has a bad feeling about it, and really I don’t see the need let alone the reason.
I myself have asked, what’s up with Woyano becoming a political arena? This doesn’t mean that I begrudge anyone the right to talk politics. I am open to any topic anyone wants to discuss, I may agree and I may not, but isn’t that the point? Shouldn’t we feel comfortable posting what we want to discuss here? I don’t think one persons opinions or beliefs stand for more then another persons. I think, or thought, that the idea was putting "ourselves" out there to meet and discuss like topics with people who might share the same interests. But I don’t think that means we have the right to totally shun the people who don’t.
And what’s with everyone wanting something done with the "trouble makers" ? What trouble makers ? Are all of you with comments like this, aware of something that I myself am missing? I havn’t seen any "bad" behaviour out of anyone on Woyano. I have seen some heated discussions, some people getting their nose out of joint over something someone else said or posted. But you can honestly mean to "rid" Woyano of people simply because you don’t agree with them! Or having people banned because they have more then one account? I can agree 100% with JV’s response to that suggestion and I have to wonder how many of you really know what goes into running and maintaining a site like this, DAILY. Sheesh. I have two Woyano accounts, should I be banned? I joined with a second account that allows me the page to properly edit and create new Skins for all of you. Does that mean I’m doing something wrong, and I deserve to be banned? ~L~
Does Woyano need better Mods? Perhaps, it could come to a point of needing the threads moderated. I don’t see where that is an issue at this point though, cause like I said, where are the trouble makers? I havn’t seen anyone being abusive, or nasty. I havn’t seen any content posted that I would dub improper or offensive. There are undoubtably grounds that would make moderating such content necessary, because where there is chat, before long there usually is someone that would or will become abusive, nasty, improper or offensive. Therefore repercussions of some kind are necessary. But only for the right reasons, and I’m sure that the terms for Woyano say as much.
I don’t think that the issue really has anything to do with politics or political beliefs. I think that alot of folks are using politics and or political beliefs as their leg of reason to argue. It’s really easy to see how quickly we all devide over such little things. Little things, some of you may take great offence to that, and I’m prepared for it too. But really, the majority of the political "debate" on Woyano is american made, I see mainly american politics and a very slight touch on some british politics. Ask yourselves this, are we all americans? Are we all British? Or Canadian or otherwise? No, we are not. So really if folks want to discuss politics, go for it! Post away, share your views and opinions! BUT at the same time accept the fact that we are not all in one place, and we don’t all share the same views. You might be a very patriotic american with very devote views on the politics in your country, but that doesn’t mean we all are. Rightly we shouldn’t be attempting to "govern" a web site! This should be a place where we all can feel welcome and comfortable discussing whatever we like! No matter where we are from or what we believe.
dreamz
46 Comments
When I posted the values statement, the overwhelming opinion was that moderation should be minimal and only happen in the case of illegal content or comments. We can discuss that further if people would like. We do have the ability to moderate our own posts by deleting comments or the posts themselves. I'd like to trust Woyanos to know best what to do with their own posts. Can we also decide how we'll respond to more highly-charged posts?
Awesome thoughts, Dreamz. You really seem to care about the group as a whole, and I want to give that sentiment my full support. What can I do to help?
No.
Or having people banned because they have more then one account?
the two accounts problem isn't people like you, it's people who (well, I don't know what they think they're doing, honestly, their masquerade was so obvious they might as well not have bothered). The suggestion was to stop them having two accounts (I agree it would mean no one could) but it seems that isn't possible.
I havn’t seen any "bad" behaviour out of anyone on Woyano.
http://www.woyano.com/vie...-Global-Warming-Is-a-Scam comments
I think really a troll-avoidance policy's best even though it isn't clear they're trolls
I miss the positive vibe too georgie, that's why I just keep trying to I guess re-focus topics that become very misconstrued, back to what the real objective was meant to be. As far as I'm concerned that focus is all of us as a group :)
Did you post that link as an example of bad behaviour clemmati ? And if so on whos part?
The way I see it, that is a keen example of the point I was making of people not liking someones view on a particular topic. They disagreed, most debates work that way.
A couple of things could have been done differently there. Firstly, if the person reading the article disagreed, they did not HAVE to comment. That was a choice. As was continuing it further into an argument.
I read that article and the comments to follow it, and all I see is two people disagreeing. One got the reaction sought. The other got all the time needed to post comments to otherwise contradict the original argument... And then they both resorted to childish name calling and banter.
So who is the person in the wrong and how do you decide? My answer to that is simple. You don’t.
Whatever happened to common sense people? Where there is smoke, there is bound to be fire. If you choose to fuel the fire, are you not looking to get burned? Is that not a risk you take yourself? It’s all about your own choices folks. Take a good look at the situation, before you decide to put yourself in the middle of it. And if you so choose to put yourself in the middle of it, then take a good look at what you got from it and ask yourself? Was it worth it? Did you make some kind of point or achieve anything?
Thinking before you act is one of the simplest common sense things you could do! So if you think your reading something posted by someone “trolling”, consider it well before you decide to give them the responses they seek. If one person starts the fire, and you choose to fuel it, then there is no deciding who is right or who is wrong, because right and wrong do not exist when people disagree. Each person thinks they are right and the other person is wrong and so the original argument gets lost in an otherwise ridiculous flame war.
Decide for yourself what you are here for and what you want to be a part of. If you choose to join a topic of discussion that becomes heated or a full out flame war, then accept your choice to have joined that discussion, accept the responses you got within that discussion and if you can’t take the heat..STOP FUELLING THE FIRE ;)
Decide for yourself what you are here for and what you want to be a part of. If you choose to join a topic of discussion that becomes heated or a full out flame war, then accept your choice to have joined that discussion, accept the responses you got within that discussion and if you can’t take the heat..STOP FUELLING THE FIRE ;)
I can take the heat but I've been trying, on the whole, not to fuel the fire.
As for better moderating.. you build a better mousetrap and mother nature will build a better mouse.. someone is always going to try and push the boundries.. it's just human nature..
oh and much better moderating here as well :)
But that's fine, if that's what they seek, and that's what they get, then they should be satisfied with themselves :)
Me, I'm not here to be dragged into anyones particular flame war or rant or whine or moan or whatever they so choose to dub it. If they don't have the sense to put positive energy into making woyano what they'd like to see it be for themselves, then they must only be seeking the negative banter they contribute! So if in return what they get is equally as negative I guess it is on them!
just because i happen to not agree with everything you say doesn't mean im trying to fight you
im a tad confused with the point of this post and the intention of your last post
oh and much better moderating here as well :)" that wasn't meant to antagonise LBP? ~laughs~ right. As for you agreeing or disagreeing, I've not seen you say much either way. Your posts are pretty much as random as they come hon ;) I think the point of the post was pretty clear. As have been my responses to all of the comments. Try being positive rather then always with your back up !
and the reason i said im so glad this isnt the vip is that i much prefer this site to something like the vip
i thought i was entitled to my opinion?
i definetly do believe this site is moderated much better - because we are in control of our own page - like for example - if you wanted you could delete any reply here *S*
Then there are a couple of minor rows inside the community (I don't know the VIP, skeleton man, but I've seen a lot worse too) during which two community members who disagreed eventually became uncivil, one of whom, OK this time I'll quote, said to LBP
So use the kerchief to wipe his cum off your face
(I stayed out of that thread, I feel bad about that, I feel I should have 'fanned the flames' at that point. In another thread on a similar topic, I did perhaps 'fan the flames' by trying to get the poster to discuss a comment he'd made about women's brains, well, so?)
Whatever. You then post to say, well, I'm not quite sure what you're saying, I post to say 'no' to a couple of your points (not a disagreement no, a clarification no) and also give an example of something I think is bad behaviour (as you said you hadn't seen any on Woyano) and you start SHOUTING?
What's up, dreamz?
Did I say you were not entitled to your opinion? :) You are certainly, and I'd have to agree .. the ability to manage your own posts and pages is a helluva great option! I have no desire to delete anyones comments though.. That would be kind of pointless imho.
You should perhaps tell me what’s up there clemmati, what point is it you are attempting to make? You somehow seem to think I am being offensive and I just don’t see how. Not even through your talented copy and paste tactics. I don’t see anything I posted as offensive, I do believe that when you choose to enter a discussion you are responsible for what comes of it. You and those involved in it with you. That is common sense friend. Do I believe that people should be posting rude stuff about cum on peoples face and such? NO! that is very childish behaviour and I’d have none of it either. There is a BIG difference between a disagreement and flat out improper comments and content!
Isn’t it funny that my original post starting this thread was about this exact sort of negative-ness? And look at where we are now! I’m not here to argue anything. I don’t think my original post needs any further explanation. I’m FOR the GROUP. I’m FOR everyone INDIVIDUALLY or as a WHOLE. You are taking my words and putting them into context that doesn’t FIT what I described. When someone is being that rude, yes something should be said. And I don’t see that as fuelling a fire. Fuelling a fire is the example link you first posted. Banning options exist in almost all forms of chat or online communities for the sole purpose of dealing with individuals that cannot be civil or insist on being vile and rude. You may also note that I posted “Are you seeing something that I am not??” Well apparently you are. That doesn’t mean that you need to get all up in my face about it as though I posted the comments myself. Or then turn something I’ve said into something it is not. I guess I should have kept it extremely simple and said : BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOURSELF!
Maybe that would be easier to understand.
Cheers! :)
I still don't quite understand your post as given you'd seen no bad behaviour on Woyano, WHY POST IT?
This is obviously a case of massive noncommunication so, I'M OUT.
I shouted that on purpose..btw..
but like i said, things posted online can be easily misconstrued
perhaps its best to move on!
When I began using the Net, way back, all upper case for emphasis = 'shouting', and a breach of etiquette. Not shouting in anger, but, shouting. (At all of us, if it -- the all-caps -- is construed that way -- yes.)
The Skin, well no, because all-caps all the time isn't all-caps for emphasis, all-caps by design isn't the same as a deliberate move to all-caps to emphasize a word or phrase. So even if we take all-caps to = 'shouting' the all-caps in the skin wouldn't be 'shouting'.
But anyway you seem to be saying all-caps for emphasis isn't 'shouting' (discourteous, patronising) now. I'll try to remember that.
no one meant any offense in this particular discussion
(and i only brought up the vip because it was brought up by skeletonman)
I would hope to have not offended cause that was not what I intended.
and skeletonman relates a lot of things to the VIP ~L~ I think we all know too well !
From what I've seen throughout my life, this dynamic is inevitable: when no one has a history with anyone else, there is no aggression and chafing, hence a 'honeymoon' period in the newly formed relationship; as the chafing happens, things heat up and conflicts begin happening. At this point, something must obviously give; each of us 'gives' in a different way; some shut up, some get aggressive, some get self-righteous, some walk away. Within a reasonable time frame the situation will stabilise to a 'realistic' balance of getting along and conflicting; as new individuals join the relationship, or events from elsewhere impact upon the people in the relationship, things get stirred up again and the balance shifts. Basically, it's an organic system, with no central point of control and lots of feedback.
Having said all this, I also believe that there are better and worse ways that each individual can choose to participate in a relationship; hence, you have some positive and some negative relationships. In general, I think things would work out for the best if each person volunteered, when conflicts involving them crop up, to ask themselves what part they personally play in the conflict, and try to approach it honestly. Not to pretend there isn't a conflict, nor to attempt to be above conflict, and especially not to try to make it wholly the other party's responsibility, because it essentially never is.
In terms of avoiding conflict, well, I believe that some conflict is a healthy and normal part of the interactions between people; but again, that there are more and less healthy forms of conflict. Someone recently made a post about what I think was called 'toxic negativity'. I didn't think the idea was very well posed in the linked article, but I do think there's a real nugget of truth in there. Everyone has an aspect of 'toxic negativity' in them, and it's that that draws us all into the conflicts. Really, what trolls are doing is finding the little bit of toxin in one of us, the bruise, and poking it. It works because there are so many people with a variety of bruises that the troll is almost guaranteed to get *someone* to knee-jerk.
So to sum up, I think the key to a healthy community is the ability of the individuals in it to see their own black eyes, accept them, and try to compensate, either before the post goes out, or afterwards. I want to emphasize *accept* in the equation, because I think a lot of the reason these dynamics get perpetuated is due to people's embarrassment or disgust at their own behaviour. Everyone gets baited and reacts badly; if it happens to you, just *apologize*.
In conclusion, I apologize in advance for my own possible arrogance in this post. I don't know if it comes across that way or not, but I feel somewhat strongly about this, so I probably state it more strongly than necessary.
Um... have a nice day? ;P Awkward finish...
The Woyano honeymoon period is wearing off, and like any period of falling in love, it inevitably drifts into seeing your mate (or mates, in our case) in the cold light of day for who they really are. This is reality setting in when you ask yourself, is this the person I really want to be with?
Then you decide, yeah, I want to continue seeing this person, even if they aren't the dreamy idealized hunk of burning love I thought they were, and even if they have some quirks that at times make our relationship more difficult than I expected. You keep in mind the reason you wanted to be with them in the first place, and you develop a slow-burning, long lasting form of love, that replaces the intense, thrilling, butterflies in your stomach-spend every minute together kind of love when you're first falling for each other.
That's such a great thing. I think we're all sort of testing each other now. Who's in this relationship for the long haul? Can we deal with each other's sore spots? Can we have a few conflicts that can eventually be resolved, or at least shelved when they start to become insulting?
Like any relationship, a few decide they don't want to make it a long-term love affair, because love hurts sometimes. But I hope to make my relationship with Woyano and its members a long-term one, and so I'm willing to put up with your stinky breath in the morning, and the way you always leave your dirty socks on the floor, and how you always forget to put the toilet seat down. Because after all that, you're still pretty cool.
All jokes aside..Im just really grateful that people care enough to have passion but also reason.
Wonder how I could go about having an affair with Woyano...I may be commitment phobic...
Another point to make with them is that they seem to be the most popular threads...so why would they stop creating/ commenting on them when they are a big factor to making them popular. Popular for the wrong reason. But still popular. Its an attention thing. Again...relate back to the consumerism thread.
In relation to this post: well said Dreamz:)
I was thinking recently in the context of some of the questions JV raised, and georgie's values statement, that someone new seeing the "what's hot" list recently wouldn't find it very enticing and probably would find it a turn-off. it has been a far cry from the lists of, say, three weeks or more ago, for instance. Myself, I've gone simply to looking mostly at the "new stuff" category in order to find stuff of interest to me.
I see lots of sites that invite the rating of posts. For many of them, I wonder why.
Where CAN you talk politics? People don't like it at work generally-
then there is the saying- don't talk politics or religion in bars- and why is that? Because most can't speak to those topics without raising emotional levels- and adding alcohol can only fuel the fires which probably ends with someone bleeding.
In a forum such as this- it still fuels the fires- but people know in here they can speak their mind without fear of bodily harm coming to them.
A bully is always going to be a bully- either behind a computer screen or in your face- but this kind of place allows regular individuals the ability to voice their opinions AND get feedback on those opinions-either in agreement or disagreement-
I gave a few of you a thumbs up!
It seems that when we all take that minute to just slow down and take at look at eachothers views and opinions, we make alot of the same points and come to pretty well the same conclusions :)
We can agree .. and we can agree to disagree if need be. Well said and well done on everyones part ~vbs~
Thumbs up and kudos to all of you
I think the absence of people airing their political, and other controversial, views is a step down, not a step up.
I'd love to hear your "........".
I think we need to keep in mind that just because this is the internet does not mean that human nature is not continued. Perhaps if it were possible to solve the world's problems off of the computer, we wouldn't have so many on it. But people will be people and there is no such thing as Utopia, as much as we all wish there were.
As this place grows and more opinions are expressed, maybe not liked but respected anyway, it will get easier to just glance over what offends us instead of drawing attention to it.
Hey you know AdGuy always gets the last word! ;)